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Grant R26
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Toronto Canada and Long Island, Nova Scotia
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I put 400 miles on my new R60/2 yesterday and really liking the bike. Similar motor to my much older R51/3 but far more civilized suspension. Slightly better brakes and there is no doubt, the post 1955 BMW gear box was an improvement.

Only issue is hot starting the R60. It is real beast to start when the engine is hot. I’m sure there is a trick but I’ve not sussed it yet.

Cold start: I follow the owners’ manual routine for cold starting…tickle both carbs, turn over the engine twice…turn on ignition and with a touch of throttle, starts with a short kick. Easy Peasy

But Hot starting is a brute: I dread stopping to buy gas as I nearly do myself in trying to get it started again

Best luck I’ve had is turning off the gas a bit before shutting down. Keep it starved for gas. Then full throttle to introduce max air with minimum gas and it seems to start fine.

but that is entirely contrary to what BMW instructed in the old manuals !!

Does not seem to be running rich. Spark plugs look great and timing, carbs etc all seem to be dialed in where they should be…just too much gas present when hot and really "wants" to flood.

I know all bikes are different and I've developed a different routine for every bike and explain the drill for starting to anybody I loan one of my bikes to; Cold start is easy. Luke warm (but not fully hot) can be iffy. Hot start is fine provided you don't introduce any extra fuel.

Getting hot starting figured out for my 1951 Norton was simple enough. Kicking over a bike with a compression release is easy on the leg. Retard the ignition advance, give it two or three kicks with no throttle and she goes...except when she doesn't. One try too many and guaranteed its flooded...then open her up full to introduce more air and spin the motor with the decompressor lever on and it will soon catch.

My R51 which turns over easily. But spinning over the R60 takes all my 160 pounds to spin that motor. If I have to kick over the R60, 5 or 10 times to clear out a flood then I'm played out...

Any helpful hints of hot starting a R60/2 would be huge help

Grant MacNeill, Toronto

312Icarus
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Old coils tend to break down.

Old coils tend to break down. Consider upgrading to a new modern plastic wrapped coil. Not very Expensive and very much more relaible. Also consider a new condensor.

Mine has always started easily hot or cold (when properly tuned!). Sometimes I have to crack the throttle a bit more than usual.. If it starts hard, something is amiss. I would lean toward the coil however.

Icarus

PS. Also, it probably goes without saying, but some people don’t realize it, but the bike is much easier to kick while standing on the ground, rather than kicking it with your left leg astride the bike.

PPS. Also,get in the habit of turning the fuel petcock off everytime. Leaving it on can lead to flooding.

Micha
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Are you sure that your

Are you sure that your magneto is ok?
I had this once on my R51/3.
I ignored the phenomena and worked hard on every hot start, thinking to my self “well she’s an old lady and what you see is what you got”, until she died once while riding the high way. It was the magneto that needed overhaul which I did. Was very expensive, but since then the problem was gone and she was a first kick starter. Back then I was not familiar with powerdynamo, I wish I was, as I would have checked the possibility of switching to their system.
Take a look here, I think this is for your model:
http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/systems/7081/7081main.htm

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Michael Steinmann
R51/3 1952
Engine Nr. 529466

Twocams
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To hot start my R69. Gas off

To hot start my R69. Gas off as soon as I can, to make a stop. To restart key on hand throttle open a bit kick 2-3 times usually starts. When it starts turn the gas back on. I use the same procedures now that I have a 12 Volt system. But started easier with the 6 volt system, I think. But the 12 V has other advantages also.

twocams

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69 R69S 03 K1200GT
92 R100RT

312Icarus
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The voltage of the bike

The voltage of the bike should have absolutly no effect on the ignition system of a /2 era bike, as they are completely independent systems and indeed you can run all day (and all night if you don’t need a light!) with no generatot/regulator/battery what so ever.

The ignition mag system is very reliable but the coils do break down over time. A new sealed one is under ~$100 and a pretty good idea.

Icarus

schrader7032
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VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
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I had hot starting issues

I had hot starting issues with my R69S just as you describe. I thought it was the coil but I'm not so sure. I ended up buying the Emerald Isle coil from Vech which probably helped but it's still a bear to start hot.

Sounds like your hot/cold routines are like mine. Don't pay attention necessarily to what the book says...find out what your bike needs. When it's hot like at a gas stop, I too turn the petcock off somewhat prior to the stop. To start, I roll the throttle to full WOT and kick 5-6 times. Then with no throttle and the petcock still off, I kick the engine. Usually just begins to rumble with 1-2 kicks. I easily feed some throttle to get the engine to come to full life. Also remember to turn the petcock back on.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

Twocams
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Kurt, I cant kick 5-6 time

Kurt, I cant kick 5-6 time with key off. I have bad knees. If it wont start 3-4 kicks key on, I kick the rear tire say a few choice words and go sit down for a few min. And your right about the Ign. system. Huumm

twocams

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Twocams
69 R69S 03 K1200GT
92 R100RT

schrader7032
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twocams - I think any bike

twocams -

I think any bike can be a 1-2 kick start bike. It takes the right state of tune and the proper way to tickle it. I know that if I "goof up" my start routine, I'm out of luck and have to either push the bike back in the garage or go inside and kill some time. Once you find the right way, it should be an easy start.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

Grant R26
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Toronto Canada and Long Island, Nova Scotia
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Hi MichaelI now have a

Hi Michael
I now have a second R51/3...a barn find that sat since 1963 that will be my winter project. Just steeling myself to the fact that I probably have to sell my current R51/3 to finance this second one. interestingly this second one is engine/frame number 529516. Perhaps made a week or two after yours !!

I've had several magneto problems with old Brit bikes. the wire might have dozens of breaks but the enormous voltage jumps the breaks fine and runs normally until the engine gets hot and transfers that heat into the mag/dyno. Then then engine starts to run rough...eventually quits. Feels like as if you have retarded the ignition. let her cool down and it seems normal again for 10 minutes or so. This behavior inevitably means it is time to rewind/rebuilt the magneto for any Brit bike.

I suspect that because of the ingenious way air is circulated up through the generator/magneto area on the way to the carbs, this helps the situation with my BMW and the coil is kept considerably cooler.

With my old Norton, once hot, barely ran when the magneto was shot. My R60/ runs fine when thoroughly hot, even in stop and go. Smooth idle and strong acceleration...gives no hint of ignition issues when running which makes me wonder if the Magneto coil is the culprit here

I'm thinking it must be a carburetor issue.

that said, I'm going to invest in a spare coil just to keep on a shelf as a back up.

Regards
Grant

Grant R26
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Toronto Canada and Long Island, Nova Scotia
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Thanks Icarus I have seen a

Thanks Icarus
I have seen a couple of guys who kick start their old BMW from astride the seat...looks very awkward. I stand beside the bike.

usually turn off m petcock about 400 yards from home. If or when I forget...usually because I have forgotten which bike I'm on and they all have different ZU (off) positions I regret it in the morning when I find a stinking puddle of gas in my shack (grin)

Grant

Grant R26
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Toronto Canada and Long Island, Nova Scotia
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Hi Kurt I think you have

Hi Kurt
I think you have nailed it. Your trick makes sense and I'm sure it will help...turn it over a few times full throttle BEFORE trying to start it. I bet that will give me the extra edge I need.

I am surprised at how much harder it is to kick over than my R51. I have perhaps 10 good kicks in me... then I need a nap !

and YES...I have pulled away from a gas station more than once... only to find I've not opened up the petcock...verrry funny.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep working on it. Every bike has it's foibles.

thanks again
Grant

PS...Vech and Richard saved the day for me again this afternoon. had a new rocker arm for my R51 and already shipped. Don't know what we would do without those guys. they know the bikes and are so generous with advice

Grant R26
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Toronto Canada and Long Island, Nova Scotia
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Ha ! I keep telling my

Ha !
I keep telling my wife...next house we get must be at the top of a hill !! Nothing beats a bump start when you have been kicking over that #!##! bike for an hour.

Grant

Micha
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Hi Grant, That is just great!

Hi Grant,
That is just great! You can get the exact manufacturing date of your bike.
I also come from the brit bike backround. I own a BSA M20 outfit, rigid frame.

Years back, after overhaul, I took myself one Saturday and went through the bike, adjusting everything according to the book, slowly. She was then a first kick starter after I tickled the carburetors 7 times on each side...

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Michael Steinmann
R51/3 1952
Engine Nr. 529466

Micha
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bmw

Grant R26 wrote:

Thanks Icarus
I stand beside the bike.

usually turn off m petcock about 400 yards from home.

That is exactly how I do it!

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Michael Steinmann
R51/3 1952
Engine Nr. 529466

waldoverkill
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+1 on close petcock before stopping

I either close the petcock for the last 1 minute of the ride or if I forget then I idle the bike for a minute with the petcock off before I shut down.

If I forget then it seems to be overflowing with fuel and I need to kick it with the petcock off 10 times. No fun at all.

R68
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I think...

...that your coil is shorting out. On the late motorcycles like the 1967, the carb preheat conduit it blocked, and so there is no way cooling air can enter the two slots in the gen-magneto front engine cover. The coil overheats, the resin insulator is very old and degrading, a short get worse and eventually you will be unable to hot start the bike. Have some fun and test my explanation: on a dry day on a clean road, run the bike with the front cover removed. the coil will not overheat and will not short and the bike will hot start easily. If your a real cheapskate, run the bike with the top "half-moon" cover (which was really the access cover to clean the carb preheat filter) off, and this permit cooling air to enter the engine cover slots/keep the coil cool! FWIW, your carbs are fine and your tune is OK, or else the the bike would not cold start and run as well as it does. Notwithstanding what the oracle of galt thinks, I don't think you can kill an R60/2, a truly wonderful machine.

Grant R26
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Toronto Canada and Long Island, Nova Scotia
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Hi R68I'm not sure at all

Hi R68
I'm not sure at all that it is the coil. I've had experience with faulty magneto coils on Brit bikes and they run very roughly...Starting is a problem but they run very roughly too and loose all power. Yesterday I spent a very hot afternoon in stop and go traffic and the engine was really hot...whenever traffic eased it pulled away beautifully and offered lovely smooth acceleration. But when I stopped for a brief visit...it was a brute to start.
My R60 must be earlier than the one you describe as the venting through the Magneto chamber remains open through to the air intake filter so there is still cooling provided this way as on my older bikes.
Also, I also see that the previous owner installed a lovely new coil made by Motorrad Elektrik in Alabama...though it must be at least 14 years old now as the bike was not started since 2004.

Apparently there were perhaps a dozen hours max on the bike after the overhaul and replaced coil

I'm still thinking that the hard starting is more of a user-error thing rather than something actually wrong with ignition

thanks for the advice

Grant in Toronto

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schrader7032
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I just checked Motorrad

I just checked Motorrad Elektrik's website and they don't show a coil for a /2 run a 6v system. Maybe they used to but don't anymore.

Vech sells the Emerald Isle coil. Version 1 of this coil had some growing pains. Version 2 came out with an additional ground which seems to have helped quite a bit. If you current coil is old and is the Emerald Isle one, it might have the limited ground. Might be time to consider an upgrade. At least have a chat with Vech.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

Grant R26
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Toronto Canada and Long Island, Nova Scotia
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Thanks KurtI put on another

Thanks Kurt
I put on another 200 miles today. Runs beautifully and no hint of missing or lack of power when hot. and I've discovered there is the modern Motorrad Elektrik coil in it. If it was a failing coil then I'm thinking it would have other symptoms besides hard hot-starting

Spark plugs looking perfect...if anything a touch lean. Idle is a touch low. I've found high idle on my Norton encouraged flooding.

Cruised along for an hour today at 75 mph without a burble...really liking this bike; the power and more of my R51 without the harsh ride of the plunger frame.

the new Metzler Block C tires made a startling difference too

but it nearly killed me starting it hot after a short break. Did exactly what you discussed above....still took 12 or 15 kicks. Whew !!

Think I'll run her dry next time until she quits and see how that works; just start it on the fumes...open the petcock only if it does not fire and then only briefly. Really starve it for gas and hope that this might be the secret.

Done perhaps 30 or 40 cold starts now. Easy going on cold starts: the engine is already running half way through my first kick.

thanks for the help and advice

Grant in Toronto

312Icarus
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Mine has always been a one or

Mine has always been a one or two kick starter. Of late, in the last few days, It is a bear to start cold. I think I have traced it to sticking carb float needles. One sticks open and floods, the other sticks closed so no fuel. Sometimes they both stick in either direction! I have to order some new new needles. I’m wondering if the brass seats wear or if new needles will cure it?

Icarus

schrader7032
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San Antonio, TX
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Grant - That's has the

Grant -

That's has the appearance of an Emerald Isle coil. If it's as old as you say, no doubt it is the older version as I mentioned.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

wa1nca
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Ashfield Ma.
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sticking needles

312Icarus wrote:

Mine has always been a one or two kick starter. Of late, in the last few days, It is a bear to start cold. I think I have traced it to sticking carb float needles. One sticks open and floods, the other sticks closed so no fuel. Sometimes they both stick in either direction! I have to order some new new needles. I’m wondering if the brass seats wear or if new needles will cure it?

Icarus

You can clean the needle and brass seat with toothpaste
a small dab on the seat and needle and rotate back and forth
rinse with water and blow dry

Tommy

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54 R51/3 55 R50 64 R27 68 R69US 68 Sears Allstate 250 (Puch)

312Icarus
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Tried that...still stick.

Tried that...still stick. Thanks,

T

schrader7032
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If I recall correctly, the

If I recall correctly, the needle that passes through the float rides in a small hole in the bottom of the bowl...it helps to stabilize the float but moves up and down to seat the tip at the top. If that well/hole at the bottom has corrosion in it, it can prevent the float from floating.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

wa1nca
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Ashfield Ma.
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Float

Good point Kurt
The bottom of the float needle needs to be free to move
If not clean the needle on the bottom should be loose or wobble
Also your floats may be heavy
Over time a very small leak will make them more than 7 grams

Tommy

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Tommy Byrnes
54 R51/3 55 R50 64 R27 68 R69US 68 Sears Allstate 250 (Puch)

312Icarus
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Have recently replaced the

Have recently replaced the floats with Vech’s plastic ones to good effect. It is interesting that the float needles only leak with the bike off. Running even at a very slow idle, either they use enough fuel to not cycle, or the vibration keeps them from sticking open or closed. I’ll order some new needles, and given them a good cleaning once again. The tooth paste trick is tough, trying to get them to spin enough to lap them. Then what do you use to clean the bore?

Icarus

Captonzap
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Bore cleaner

312Icarus wrote:

Then what do you use to clean the bore?

Icarus

Mouth wash. Wink

CZ

ps Be sure to get the kind that is alcohol.

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