Sat, 06/03/2006 - 17:50
I just rebuilt the carbs on my '65 R60 today with the full Bing kit. They still leak. Is this normal? thanks in advance for your assistance
- 983 reads
Tue, 06/06/2006 - 19:30
#2
Not sure exactly where leak is coming from...
I think I need to pull them both off again and take a look inside. The re-build kit from Bing was fairly comprehensive....not sure where leaks could be coming from....
Different question - I was able to take this newly acquired bike out for a spin yesterday but the bike labored to get over 45 MPH. Any ideas on what the top end would be for an R60? It would seem that either the carbs are severely out of tune, or I'm a fat ass and weighing the bike down (220 lbs). How will it ever pull me and a sidecar for my dog????? thanks for advice and help
Wed, 06/07/2006 - 04:43
#3
New carb kit and still leaky carbs....any suggestions?
Your R60/2 should be able to go much faster. I weigh a bit more than you, but my 1961 R60/2 will do an indicated 85mph. If both of your carbs are leaking badly, you may be running very rich, and this will definitely limit your top speed, not to mention fouling your plugs badly.
Most likely one or both of your carbs isn't sealing well against incoming gas. This could be because of a sunk float, or because the seal isn't in good condition.
If a float is sunk, you should be able to shake it and hear and feel the gas inside the float. New floats are available.
The latter situation varies according to the type of carb you have. If you have the original style carb tops, the fuel line barb is in the middle of the top, and the float seals the intake directly with the pin that runs through it. If you have the newer, lever-top style carbs, the fuel line barb is off to one side, and the float operates a lever and a small sealing tip.
With the original style tops, you can possibly use some valve lapping compound on the tip to make it conform (again) to the sealing surface in the top. The compound has to be thoroughly cleaned up after you're through.
With the lever top style, the sealing tip is a bit of steel with a rubber tip. The piece can be replaced.
Wed, 06/07/2006 - 07:32
#4
Just took them apart again...
I think your explanation is a good one, considering that I do have carbon on the plugs (brand new), and the old owner said he used to foul a lot of plugs. I just took them apart again, held the float lid up to the light and can see what looks like a few burrs in the hole. However, when I do the same thing and hold the float need in the hole, I don't see any light, indicating to me that the hole is sealed. Maybe I'm holding it in the hole with more force than the rising gas can provide?
Also, I wipe the external tops clean with a rag, and within a few minutes of having the gas line open, they seem to have the moisture of gas on them, almost like the float chambers are so full that they are leaking out around the top.
Would excessive gas make it pop and skip when the accelerator is twisted? It idles like a champ, starts first kick, but when I apply the accelerator, it pops like it is choking. Are new tops for the float chamber still available, or will I have to try and use the lapping compound? thanks for all your help
Wed, 06/07/2006 - 10:09
#5
New carb kit and still leaky carbs....any suggestions?
It does sound like your bike is running rich. But the throttle test isn't conclusive, at least not as far as I can tell without being there. With slide carbs, if you twist the throttle hard, you can easily stop the motor. This is a normal situation, and the reason why carbs progressed from direct pull slide operation to the vacuum or constant velocity style. If you twist the throttle slowly, your motor should gain speed smoothly.
Regarding your floats, float chambers and the covers: you should make sure that the chambers are clean and that the floats can easily move up and down in them. Probably they're ok, but a float might hang up on some corrosion.
To get an idea of whether your float seals off the top, you can remove the top and float from the carb, but leave the gas line connected to the top and the petcock. Holding it over a can or a bowl, open the petcock and see that the gas is flowing through the top, then lightly push the needle into the opening. It should seal with a very light pressure, when you hold it in line vertically with the top. If it doesn't seal, or requires more than a light touch, you should try lapping the needle into the seat.
Get a tube of valve lapping compound at an auto parts store. Remove the float chamber top from the bike and place it upside down in the jaws of a vise. DON'T TIGHTEN THE VISE -- just close the jaws enough to keep the top from rocking or turning. Put a dab of lapping compound on the tip of the float needle, and place it into the seat in the top. Hold the needle from the bottom, try to keep it vertical, and spin it back and forth a few times. Wash the needle and the top thoroughly before trying the test again or installing them back on the bike.
If you can't make the seat seal, you can buy new needles and new lever top style tops from Bing Agency in KS. I think we have a link to them in the resources area on the main part of the web site, or google them.
Good luck!
Thu, 06/08/2006 - 07:26
#6
New carb kit and still leaky carbs....any suggestions?
Is the choke slide open on your airfilter ? and is the air filter element clean ? If the slide is closed it will restrict the performance.
Peter
Thu, 06/08/2006 - 07:54
#7
Choke slide?
I'll be honest with you, I didn't know the air filter had a choke slide. If you mean the air intake hole, it appears to be obstruction free. On that same topic, do the ticklers do the same job as a choke? I haven't seen any choke feature on the carbs other than the tickler. Am I missing something?
I tried the idea of using the valve grinding compound. It doesn't seem to have worked either, as I have a fresh pool of gas on the ground this morning. I think I'm going to call Bing and price out new float covers. Thanks for the help
Thu, 06/08/2006 - 09:13
#8
New carb kit and still leaky carbs....any suggestions?
There are two general designs for air filters on these bikes. The sporting R69S, and the very late R60/2 and R50/2 bikes, came with a tallish airfilter that has no choke. The air intake is a large hole that faces to the rear, right near the front of the battery.
The earlier R60 and R50 bikes had a shorter, rounder airfilter that is split across the middle. The air intake is part of the bottom half, and it incorporates a handle for closing a slide across the intake openings. (This is ususally very stiff to operate.)
If the choke is closed, it will enriched the mixture by limiting how much air can be drawn into the cylinders.
The ticklers also enrichen the mixture, temporarily, by holding the float down and allowing raw gas to flow into the carb throat.
Most /2 bikes need a tickling to get started when cold, but the manual recommends using the choke only when it's below freezing outside. I've never had the opportunity, nor felt the need, to use the choke on my R60.
Anyway, it sounds like you do need new tops and/or new float needles. But when you get new "lever top" tops, you won't need to replace the needles because the new design doesn't seal with the float needle.
Mon, 11/02/2009 - 01:41
#9
This happened to me as well...
I have a R60/2 with Bings on it, and the left side was leaking. I ordered the rebuild kit along with the "lever tops." In converting to the lever tops, I first put the floats in upside down (with the "wires" up, and the "plate" down), and they worked fine at first, then leaked like crazy. Grrr...
So I read some things on this site (which is why I signed up... to hopefully help someone else!) and I took them back apart.
The critical thing I was missing was the little "spacer." There is a little metal spacer (looks like a slightly thick metal washer, but is small diameter) that goes on the float slide... I guess that is what it is called..
Anyway, after doing some testing and messing around, I determined that my issue was that the float wasn't floating very well, because I had it upside down, and it tended to stick, and the washer was needed to help the upwards floating float seal off the incoming fuel.
Now both carb don't leak at all, and I am a happy camper. 
-Dan
Tue, 03/30/2010 - 07:31
#10
i agree with all that jlibby
i agree with all that jlibby says...he is right:)
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 01:03
#11
I have a similar problem on
I have a similar problem on my R60/2 1969. In addition to the "Bing drip" I was getting heavy flooding in the carbs, black soot on the plugs. It was especially bad when using the ticklers. I took the carbs down and cleaned everything, the bike had been sitting for years. The floats performed fine but still leaked out of the float chamber. The correct spacer washer was there and in place.
After confirming everything I could in terms of balancing and correct throttle adjustment, I was seriously considering just buying new ones (to the tune of $500 a piece.) Then I checked the valve clearance. In addition to the actual .006" and .008" intake / exhaust clearance, I noticed the up and down motion of the rocker arms was way out. I followed some of the techniques on Duane A's site and also in the Barrington manual. The rocker arms should not float up and down much at all, none really, just enough to get the thinnest film of oil in there.
Outcome: this was the cause of the carb problems: the rockers where loose and the valve clearance was drifting. In my case it meant the valve clearance was tight and was not allowing the valve to fully close. I was getting a bit of air fuel mixture back into the carb (carbs also sneezed and the engine stumbled sometimes off idle). I can't fully explain why this caused the carbs to malfunction and run flooded and rich, but it did.
As soon as the valves closed properly the dripping Bings stopped and it generally runs well now. Check that critical up and down tolerance on the rocker arms.
Oh, and before I forget, I am 6ft2in and 280lbs. Bike did maybe 55pmh before the rocker adjustment and now does 65 easy. I can notice a little more compression on the kickstarter, it is a little harder to kick over than it was.
I would say it's not normal.... Can you tell where it's leaking from? There are quite a few places for leaks so the fix depends on where it's coming from. Maybe the float isn't sealing or the float has a crack in it and it's full of gas and doesn't float. The carb is filling up and overflowing. That's not leaking perse, but rather the carb function is not working.
Kurt in S.A.
Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2