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matt crocco
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Hey does anyone know if different Avonaire fairings were made for /2 earls fork, tele fork, /6 etc. I am looking at one and not sure if it is for a /2. and the owner does not know. Thanks

EuroIron
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I am thinking I've seen them on earls forked bikes

I have this very rare BML available and I happen to think it's about 72 times cooler looking than an Avonair... and probably more than 72 times rarer

I am about 97% sure it will go on an earls bike and I also have a nice set of Enduros that would look great with it

oligee7275
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Hey Matt,
Great find.
I have looked for a long time for an Avonaire fairing for my R60. I know of one but the owner is not willing to let go of it.
I found a Glaser but I am not fond of the look.
If you have Roland Slabon's "How to restore your BMW motorcycle" guide and look on page 188 it shows an Avonaire fairing mounted on a R69US with Craven luggage. It looks great. I have the Craven luggage and I am looking for the fairing.
Does the fairing you are looking at have all of the mounting hardware with it? While the fairings are hard to find the mounting hardware is sometimes harder to find.
To answer your question, the Avonaire should fit your /2.
Let us know how you do with it. Pictures too???
Dean

oligee7275
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Hi EuroIron,
I found that you are in fact offering this fairing for sale.
Do you have the mounting hardware as well?
Thanks, Dean

EuroIron
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If I have the mounting hardware......... I've walked over it several times without a clue

very likely I do but since I have a reasonably well equipped machine/fab/welding shop

and I've not seen much in the way of vintage mounts for this type of stuff that impressed me as being nothing more than barely adequate

I'd be inclined to fab something up in stainless if I were to put it on one of my bikes

I guess I could for the buyer of this but it wouldn't be too awfully inexpensive

oligee7275
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EuroIron,
Thanks for the reply.
Do you know how close the BML fairing is to the Avonaire? I only ask because I have access to the mounting hardware for the Avon and could fab mounts from that. In pictures they look very similar.
Dean

EuroIron
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I do not know for certain although the basic lines appear very similar to me and I'll even go further to say not many avid BMWphiles have ever owned or even seen one of these

mounting a fairing really isn't difficult but to fab up some nice mounts just takes the time it takes

jeff dean
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I had an Avon on an R60/2 years ago:

It is a really pretty fairing.

However, I did not like it then because it attenuated the noise so much. It is a lot of work to mount, and requires relocation of the headlight.

I sold it after a short time of use.

EuroIron
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was it attached to the frame with U-bolts?

seems to be the preferred method although I personally prefer welding a tab or even better, a threaded bung into the frame

Allan.Atherton
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"oligee7275" wrote:

... If you have Roland Slabon's "How to restore your BMW motorcycle" guide and look on page 188 it shows an Avonaire fairing mounted on a R69US with Craven luggage. It looks great. I have the Craven luggage and I am looking for the fairing....

Looks good with the Enduros, too:

Allan.Atherton
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"EuroIron" wrote:

was it attached to the frame with U-bolts?... seems to be the preferred method although I personally prefer welding a tab or even better, a threaded bung into the frame

The Avonaire has an extensive special mounting system as shown in photos here:
http://aatherton05.home.insightbb.com/Fairing/Avonaire.html

EuroIron
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that is the kind of stuff I really dislike

in my world I see this as JC Whitney'ing a highly sought fairing onto world class machine

my feather bed bikes with thin wall tubing have been drilled, holes filled with threaded or counter-bored bungs......... and welded back for mounting of many items

tabs are much easier

the purists when convenient types seem to think it's blasphemy but it's a lot easier to "fix" and make appear as though it never happened than collapsed and indented tubing

I won't use "p" type clamps or "u bolts" on any of my motorcycles

just simply don't like them and they do tend to move about

besides...... those extensive mounts .......... simply because of their pre-requisite bolt up limitation.......... are far from direct and as robust as
many simpler and stronger methods could be

Allan.Atherton
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"EuroIron" wrote:

... that is the kind of stuff I really dislike... in my world I see this as JC Whitney'ing a highly sought fairing onto world class machine... I won't use "p" type clamps or "u bolts" on any of my motorcycles...

Your comment implies that I butchered an Avonaire fairing as well as my bike. On the contrary, that is how the fairing was meant to be mounted. In its day, the fairing was an accessory installed by the dealer in an hour using the system shown.

That web page at http://aatherton05.home.insightbb.com/Fairing/Avonaire.html shows the original Avonaire mounting system for the /2. That particular Avonaire fairing came to me with its mounting system intact, and it was the same system that my restored Avonaire received back in 1987, when I was still able to get a complete new set of brackets and clamps from Sprint Mfg. Perhaps you noticed the "shell and new brackets" underlined link on the web page. Here is that first Avonaire attached to my R69S with new factory brackets and clamps:

After I posted the web page on Avonaire mounting, one of Peter Nettesheim's crew at Vintage Days 2003 said the page had helped them in making missing hardware and mounting an Avonaire on one their bikes.

EuroIron
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not at all.......... and to the contrary

I understand that is how it was and still is done so as to be easily bolted up although you cannot deny such clamp type mounts on that relatively thin wall tubing does change it, and visibly so

how I would mount that fairing you would likely presume, was actual butchering, some even, lacking understanding would find my methods, downright scary and regard them as incredibly intrusive

believe me there would be some serious machining and welding taking place and the mounting would be strictly point a to point b

after the fact, in order to make what I would do, look like it never happened would require either filler or simply weld a few holes shut and sand them off

you certainly can understand why I think clamping such things on tubing is bogus and even more detrimental than properly welding a tab or bung onto the same tubing........ and it matters not to me if such is done for a sidecar, luggage, fairing, steering damper........ or whatever

just as I understand it is a somewhat easy means to an end

I can show you many BMW and other vintage frames damaged by such clamps....... why do people do this? and it's not just vintage BMW's but many others too

maybe they can't tig weld, fabricate, or machine

now look at that lower rear mount for example........... why clamp onto the frame there when there is a perfectly good lower engine mount stud so very close? I know the answer already......... because that is how the kit was supplied...........

EuroIron
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and this top one......... and you have to admit this anchor point is so far removed from optimum..........

anyhow....... even if it had to be there.......... what would be wrong with using either of the two already existing anchoring fasteners........ ok the bottom one is rubber isolated.........

Allan.Atherton
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"EuroIron" wrote:

... you cannot deny such clamp type mounts on that relatively thin wall tubing does change it, and visibly so...

I had the two Avonaire fairings off several times during trial fitting and maintenance, leaving the clamps loose on the frame, and they only scratch the paint.

"EuroIron" wrote:

...some... would find my methods downright scary and regard them as incredibly intrusive... there would be some serious machining and welding taking place...

Yes, that would involve a lot of trial fitting and marking, then taking the bike down to the frame, then drilling and welding and machining, then repainting and re-assembly. A lot of trouble to install a fairing, and hoping that in the end it fitted without need for the now-impossible re-adjustments.

"EuroIron" wrote:

... I can show you many BMW and other vintage frames damaged by such clamps.....

Perhaps you are thinking of aftermarket sidecar clamps. I have attached crashbars and Avonaires and Flanders stands to /2 frames, and crashbars and Vetter and Windjammer fairings to /5, /6 and /7 frames. These all used clamps and only scratched the paint with no harm to the frames.

EuroIron
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"Allan.Atherton" wrote:
"EuroIron" wrote:

... you cannot deny such clamp type mounts on that relatively thin wall tubing does change it, and visibly so...

I have have the two Avonaire fairings off several times, freeing the clamps, and they only scratch the paint.

try taking some calipers to the tubing

"EuroIron" wrote:

...some... would find my methods downright scary and regard them as incredibly intrusive... there would be some serious machining and welding taking place...

Yes, that would involve a lot of trial fitting and marking, then taking the bike down to the frame, then drilling and welding and machining, then repainting and re-assembly. A lot of trouble to install a fairing, and hoping that in the end it fitted without need for the now-impossible re-adjustments.

People envision things in many different ways but after one does things like this several times it becomes quite simple and straight forward to do things like this quickly, easily, amazingly rigid, and still be totally adjustable in 3 axis.

"EuroIron" wrote:

... I can show you many BMW and other vintage frames damaged by such clamps.....

Perhaps you are thinking of aftermarket sidecar clamps. I have attached crashbars and Avonaires and Flanders stands to /2 frames, and crashbars and Vetter and Windjammer fairings to /5, /6 and /7 frames. These all used clamps and only scratched the paint with no harm to the frames.

perhaps but I suppose that sometimes people have such opinions regarding the difference between actual mint and damaged depending on if they are buying or selling an item.......... I've seen clamp on items, even side stands, collapse the much weaker tubing enough to let go......... can you see that with your eyes? depends on how good your eyes are I suppose. Touching up paint after such fab is completed........ and really you may be surprised just how tiny the HAZ can be with modern techniques........... or doing it later........ sounds like a wash to me.

frankly, it seems quite ridiculous attempting to justify such rudimentarily(I made this word up, ok?) primitive, far from optimal or ideal, and barbaric mounting techniques other than strictly doing it in the name of period correctness......... they sure as heck don't do it that way on anything made within the last 20 years and I am quite certain the owners of most all modern vehicles are understandably glad..... even if they don't know it

now if I may be excused, I must go patch my burnt thru head pipe with some sectioned beer cans and a a couple radiator hose clamps

niall4473
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EuroIron wrote:-

now if I may be excused, I must go patch my burnt thru head pipe with some sectioned beer cans and a a couple radiator hose clamps

don't use beer cans especially not the tiny ones you have over there, bean tins are much better, especially the ones with ribbed sides which are good for forming around the bent sections, and being steel they last better as well. Jubilee clips, (hose clamps) are over-engineering it, fence wire works just as well.
Of course for originality you should use sausage tins.

BTW, if you ever have to shim a crank up at the side of the road, here's a tip, Coca-cola tins are 4 thou thick, Pepsi only 3.

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EuroIron
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splendid, I'll keep that in mind........ any opinions on VanCamps Beenie Weenie cans? I heard they were made from Chinese scrap metal

I'm going to post up some pix of some recent butchery of a very light weight Norton Fbed frame......... and done merely in the name of having a good anchor for exhausts, remote oil filter mounts, struts to the secondary intake runner and carb that anchors that mess around 18 inches from the valves

I could have used pclamps and other various easier methods........ but it's a one off race bike, not anything period correct

and I've just about decided I'm going to mount this fairing to a very nice conversion bike I have and in the process, drill the bejeezus and weld on it with much prejudice

then send the whole shooting match over to the painter

niall4473
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EuroIron wrote:

any opinions on VanCamps Beenie Weenie cans? I heard they were made from Chinese scrap metal

Not familiar with the brand, but if they're made out of recycled Chang Jiangs then they would probably be ideal.

Be very interested to see pics of the Norton, got into them as a kid, it was an act of teenage rebellion, growing up in a house full of BMWs, and Velocettes too, and I still have a few, but I can't help feeling that we'd get ourselves drummed out of this forum for discussing Brits, perhaps we should go to Britbike.com. Asked the old man about the hub thing today and he thought the change was made because the early ones were no good for sidecar work, but as ever BMW never admit to being wrong, so don't tell why they change things, he said that a handful of the very first Earles bikes had another hub again, more like the plunger full width one, but that really was just a handful.

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EuroIron
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well ok here are some bits I made to adapt an oil bag triumph swingarm, with the dropouts cut, shortened, and reversed (drive on wrong side) onto it with timkens and be fully adjustable for preload and side to side

and something as boring as centerstand shoulder bolt and not shown is the lug

it was very kind of Autometer to donate their Pro-Cycle tach to this bike so I made a stainless mount for it, hard to see it is actually isolated in live rubber

since it has a rockin Ducati alternator running on the end of the crank, 68XLCH with dry belt and open primary.......... the engine breathing got modified for reduced pumping losses

this is the general architecture of the front and rear engine mounts although the rears are much more complex..... thankfully this is Ti and not too heavy

now this won't make much sense but that tubing is 0.035" wall and those allens are 1/4 20........ this is the girdle which supports the stator housing which runs off a crank nut with zero runout arbor......... primary.... down low and up front... if the housing wasn't there you would see the crankshaft sprocket....... no in fact you do....... it's the pulley the belt is running on

now let me see if I can find some drilling and welding of this frame with extreme prejudice

this is the glass dual seat support......... not finished and could have been much nicer but I think it will work........ it's all stainless

well here you can see the frame drilled to accept a bung for the manifold struts

I think I put no less than 10 more similar holes in it and you can see a couple of them in the seat brace pic

somewhere I have more pix of this bike during it's last mockup and before final paint

it was a very consuming build but I'm really thinking hard about those twin screws on a boxer in a plunger frame geared for the salt flats

Allan.Atherton
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"EuroIron" wrote:

well ok here are some bits I made...

Those shots are amazing. I have always envied real mechanics and those who could weld.

EuroIron
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Thank you sir, you are very kind, I'm not really thrilled with the seat bracket welds but it did polish out nice and is so over-done a few of the less than perfect beads don't really matter...... hope not anyhow

a little more of the front engine mount...... really not the easy way to do this but once I decided I liked it, there wasn't any stopping and the rear had to be done the same but with three levels of "X" bracing to keep that 53 inch VTwin from jerking them apart

these were cut off, shortened, and welded back on with some reinforcing on the back sides..... needed to get the Vintage Cosmo Tarozzi rear sets back far enough

The Tarozzis are really nice but I did discard the supplied clevis joints in favor or aviation grade stainless rod ends, Joey Two Bolts at Vintage Cosmo gave those and the Three Way Tomaselli's to this bike, cool guy

this is the Duc alternator setup partially complete and before final welding, I think I would put one of these on a /2 or 3 bike in a heart beat and not because the stock excited field thing is so bad like a HD genny, just that these are simpler and much better

that is the one that supports the long runner struts after it was welded into place

there are much easier ways to mount a remote spin on filter adapter

couple anchor points for the exhaust and QD passenger pegs

I wish Ti machined as easily as T6...... life would be easier

I'd really like to fab up some fairing mounts and do the anchor points this way....... and then for the struts probably some LH/RH couplers with the right hardware........ could be very minimal and quite strong

The BMW frames are a bit heavier walled than the Fbed and I've never had one of my Fbeds break yet

EuroIron
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finally found one of it from about a year and change ago

under 370 pounds and it got a double leader on the rear, different swing arm since then and a few other things, geared for right at 160 at 6800 rpm, I'll be thrilled if it touches 135

saintclair2703
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Best use of electrical tape on a seat I've ever seen.!

Can you adapt that method to keep an Avonaire on the bike?

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EuroIron
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yes and since your highly trained and keenly astute eye has caught that detail

I'll spill my guts

use the Gorilla Tape instead of the "same old same old gets slimy and sticky greasy skinny black E tape"

you know anyone that can do perfection to that seat in semi exotic hide?

nothing fancy but not satisfied with the hide of naugas

some 1/4" gel pad and a layer of rhino or shark over it would likely suit me and probably would prefer snap rivets to glue

that Gorilla tape is awesome stuff though

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