Sun, 08/29/2010 - 11:59
Hello All,
Complete noob here to the motorcycle scene. My fiancee and I are thinking about getting a bike. I've always loved the old school look of the /2 bikes. I don't know anything about bikes, do not have a motorcycle license yet (but plan to take the motorcycle course at a local community college).
I wanted to then ask for some guidance on these bikes from you. I was looking around for some sticky on the different /2 models. Basically laying out the differences from year to year for each model, differences between models, good years to get that had less mechanical issues or nice advancements, etc. I know these bikes aren't going to be cheap and the rule of thumb that i've come across, at least for cars is, you get more value forkin out the money upfront initially upon purchase than buying a project and putting in the money yourself to fix and restore. Please let me know if this is true for these bikes as well. I'm not a wrencher by any means but if these bikes are simple enough (which they look like they are, and one of my attractions to it) to work on, maybe a project one would be the way to go for a starter bike. I'm trying to stay under 7k for the purchase (part of me thinks that may be somewhat high for a starter bike and maybe just go in a baby step of Honda Shadow for like 2-3k, but then another side said just go balls to the wall and put out for a nice bike already)
I'm 6'3" and 230 lbs. Just stating it just in case size matters for these bikes. And to find out if im too big for it or not. If I am, I'll prolly look into other options of modern day bikes that have an old school look. So far, what has caught my eye is the HD 883 Iron and HD Forty-Eight. If there are any other companies that you know of that make retro bikes, please let me know. The advantage of the retros is buying a bike that has the latest and greatest suspension, brakes, etc. However, the drawback is that these may be more complicated for me to maintain and fix than a vintage BMW.
Sorry for the scattered thoughts. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
BTW: I live in San Jose, CA and hoping to go the Roseville meet on 9/11 just to see the vintage lineup in person. If anyone else is going, would love to talk about bikes beforehand.
- 605 reads
Sun, 08/29/2010 - 13:48
#2
Thanks Kurt.
I was afraid
Thanks Kurt.
I was afraid that my size would be an issue. I have looked at the post 1969 models and the design unfortunately, doesn't quite do it for me. The simple old school look is gone which I really like. I guess you can't have everything.
And thanks for the tip on Duane's page. I was actually just reading it right before I saw your post. From his page at:
http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/slash.htm
It sounds like the R69/R69S is the preferred model to get from the /2 lineup. I'll try to see if someone local has one for me to just sit on and see how I fit. And I'll also look into the Triumphs. How are they on maintenance and reliability?
Thanks,
John
Sun, 08/29/2010 - 13:51
#3
Advice worth what you paid for it
Separate your entry into motorcycling from the vintage aspect. Vintage stuff brings a whole host of issues that aren't really necessary complications to learning to ride and finding out if you enjoy it. Putting 10 grand into an underpowered, underbraked bike with dim lights and no turn signals, only to find that it's uncomfortable to ride and puts you in serious difficulties in traffic, may not be the best idea.
Buy a relatively modern bike. Get something relatively small and easy to handle (and pick up). Spend a couple thousand on it; you won't lose much when you sell it. Buy a "naked" bike so that there's little plastic to break. DEFINITELY take the MSF beginner course to get your license. You will not only be safer while learning, you'll also learn what's important to you, regarding bike features.
Once you know you want to ride, then you can get a vintage bike to tickle the carburetors and kickstart and all the other weird stuff.
While you're getting some experience riding, you can pick up a vintage project and work your way through it. By the time it's ready, you'll be a much better rider.
Also, if you are not into wrenching, you will need to bring a lot more money. It's not that you have to overhaul the engine and transmission yourself; but you will find that there are very few places that can work comepetently on a vintage motorcycle. They are probably far away from you, too. So it will be expensive to bring a bike to someone who is capable of doing even routine work -- and old bikes need a lot of routine maintenance.
I am a computer programmer by trade, and my only real mechanical experiences have to do with a VW Beetle I owned as a teenager. Still, there's a lot that I can do, and it's interesting to learn about the machine.
Good luck to you!
Sun, 08/29/2010 - 13:58
#4
SF Bay Area tips
There's an informal group of vintage BMW riders that meet at Groeger Special Tooling in Redwood City for breakfast on Saturdays, generally at about 9:30-10am or so. Come by sometime to talk to a bunch of people who ride these bikes; you can probably try out the seating position and learn more about riding them.
Also, check out Marc Hyman's website, www.snafu.org. He has a lot of information about his R69S, restoration and maintenance. Marco is a regular for breakfast on Saturdays (but he is as likely to show up on his R12GS as his R69S).
Again, good luck!
Sun, 08/29/2010 - 14:09
#5
Hi Darryl,
Thanks for the
Hi Darryl,
Thanks for the sound advice. I'll try to look at bikes that are little more modern (but retro look) until I get a little more experienced. Probably the Honda route then. And I'll be taking the MSF course at Mission College in Santa Clara.
As for wrenching, I don't mind working on it myself at all, just don't want to break anything when trying to tinker solo. I typically do the basics on my cars such as fluid changes, brake pads, etc. I graduated with a comp sci degree myself but transitioned into Database Marketing over the years. I worked for eBay for about 8 years which is closer to you on HWY 17, but now work for DIRECTV from home.
And if you ever ride over from Santa Cruz to San Jose, please let me know. I would love to check out your bike.
Thanks,
John
Sun, 08/29/2010 - 14:45
#6
Thanks Darryl. I responded to
Thanks Darryl. I responded to your first post but it was caught by the site filters and is being reviewed. Hopefully it goes through.
Sun, 08/29/2010 - 18:15
#7
I know the 70's bikes don't
I know the 70's bikes don't do it for you. But they are a good route to go for an entry level bike. R90/6 or R100's. They are much cheaper than the pre-70's bike and quite worthy of interstate and cross country travel. They do need maintenance, and would be a good training bike to sharpen your mechanical skills. That is where I would start if I were interested in vintage BMW's and on a budget. There is a lot of support and expertise avail.
My first bike was a 1964 BMW R50/2 I bought in the mid 80's and rode it for 10 years. When they bumped up the interstate speed to 70, I realized I needed a bike with more power. I had no knowledge of working on bikes and the internet did not exist. So when I had a problem, I had to go to the crusty old BMW guys for help. I have now owned over 20 BMW's from new to old and am slowly becoming the crusty old guy (ok - in 30 more years!).
Getting into pre-70's bikes can lead to a hole in your wallet. I encourage you to do it, but get lots of info and have reasonable expectations regarding expense and restoration time. Once a bike is completed (restoration wise) the expenses are not that high. But getting there can be a chunk of change.
I am 100% a vintage guy. But what I realized after years and years is I like to travel. So I have a modern BMW for that purpose. If you want to travel on a budget buy a 70's and up bike. These will take you where ever you want at interstate speeds.
Mon, 08/30/2010 - 01:00
#8
Good advice from Darryl and
Good advice from Darryl and Kurt.
The difference between a modern bike and a "vintage" bike is extremely apparent when you experience riding both. The modern bike just starts all the time, runs exactly the same all the time, stops when you apply the brakes, and in general runs and rides without complication. The vintage bike does none of these things. Not to say that a old bike can't run well and reliably, but the difference between eras is very great.
All the very important things you will learn in the MSF course have to be amplified when riding on vintage bikes. You have to go slower, brake sooner, and think more about what your doing.
Darryl said to buy a cheap beginner bike- that's the right thing to do. It's the least ammount of headache to deal with when you need to concentrate on the road and your skills, not on oil slingers and brakes that don't work because they don't have an heat in them and a bike that won't start because you flooded the carbs with the ticklers, etc. etc.
Buy something as new as possible with disc brakes and electric starter. Learn the road and find out what kind of rider you are. When I was first learning to ride, I thought to myself I wanted a raked out chopper with a huge rear tire. I saw myself on the bike in my mind before I had experienced anything. Glad I was 17 and had no money because that riding style is just terrible for me- it feels much different than it looks. Remember when you ride the bike you can't see yourself riding it. You could be on the latest superbike or riding a pink sewing machine- it comes down to how you feel not how you look, especially when you start out.
Take the MSF and then go out a ride a few different bikes and ask yourself how the feel riding it first and then ask yourself what you want to look like on it.
You might come back and find the /2 is for you or some other older bike, but coming full circle is way better than buying into an image and realizing it's not you. I love my old bikes but if I had to learn to ride on them 15 years ago I might not be riding today. There is a reason so many bikes out there sit endlessly.
Mon, 08/30/2010 - 01:21
#9
Thanks for all the great tips
Thanks for all the great tips guys. Most appreciated.
Darryl - may be messaging you one of these weekends when I can head up to Redwood City early.
Thanks,
John
Mon, 08/30/2010 - 09:35
#10
No problem John. Hope to
No problem John. Hope to meet you sometime soon.
My 0.02:
- even at $7K, you're probably still looking at several thousand dollars to overhaul the bottom end. Note the /2s don't have oil filters...they have slingers which have to be removed from the bike around 30K intervals...maybe up to 40K. UNLESS...you know 100% that it was done prior to your purchase, you see the receipts, and the wrench is a known /2 capable person. Generally, you can't verify any of this and you'll end having to bite the bullet. If you don't heed that warning, you can severely damage the bottom end, costing much dinero.
- at 6'3", I think you're going to be cramped on the /2s. I'm a little over 6' and find that my legs are bent quite a bit more than my /7. The heavier you are, the less performance you're going to get. The R60/2 only had ~30Hp and the R69S is a little over 40Hp. Specs for models can be found at http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/bmwmodels.htm.
- if you're going to go for a /2, try to get something produced as late as possible...1969 was the last year of production. A '68-on would have most of the upgrades in the them.
- Triumph makes some retro models...might be worth a look.
Another website for reading about some of the "issues" of the bike is Duane's at http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/index.htm.
You might want to look into the mid '70s for a BMW, like a R100/7 or maybe even a 1976 R90/6. Very capable bikes and won't require (hopefully!) such an upfront mechanical burden...they'll still need some TLC probably. Or find a 1985-on R80 or R100. The last of production was the '95 models. Some of these bikes could be had for under $7K and might only need a change of fluids, etc., and you can putt on down the road.
Good luck...
Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2